Avid promised a long time ago to include 720/25p.

We need this format in PAL land,

Avid wake up!

I pray for 720 25p too!!!!

Please Avid, listen to us!

Avid is listening. If you did a search on this subject in this forum you would have found some posts on this subject including a message that Avid is working on this. No hard dates. But it is being worked upon.

Hi to all fellow varicam users/editors,

just want to hook up to this thread and point out:

We also need the 720/25p project format!!!

I´m not a programmer, I´m an editor but:

I simply can not understand why it takes that long time to implement a format that is common in Pal Countries and so many editors demanding it.

I read so many threads and waiting and waiting (versions passing by) and still I´m hoping AVID will implement it soon...

Francis

 

 

 

as said... yes we need all these new formats. Even before the camera manufacturers are building their new and sometimes rather exotic products. 

But it has been said before and there has been a reaction that it is not here yet and that there is being worked upon. If you would take the time to do a search you will find this has been discussed rather recently. So stop repeating this in new posts because it does not add anything new to the discussion. It has priority. Just wait some more. It will be there.

We all know this has been discussed before, no need for a search.
And most of us know Avid has promised to include 720/25p.
But when?

It does make sense to remind the people responsible (unfortunately they only seem to check this forum once in a while), because maybe something else has come in the way.
Don´t get me wrong, I´m on the Avid side, I want Avid to be No1 (just like you, Hans), like probably everyone who has invested in Avid, and giving reports from the frontline is the way to do it-

this thread is a reminder of our needs.

720/25p has been around long enough, I want at least a date.
For the professionals among us these dates, even if they are only approximates, are crucial.

daktulus:

But when? ...I want at least a date.

When it's done and ready for release.

daktulus:

It does make sense to remind the people responsible (unfortunately they only seem to check this forum once in a while), because maybe something else has come in the way.

No offense, but the people who NEED to check in on these forums DO on a regular basis.  The other ones are doing their jobs...which is creating software (including the features we need, such as 720/25p and 720/50p, not to mention 24p HDV).  And just because Avid's employees aren't actively posting on the forums doesn't mean they're not checking up on them...you'd be surprised how many "lurkers" there are on any forum...this one included.

Avid has only so many resources and a to-do list that's already impossible to finish, much less finish the endless new additions that are added to it daily.  Avid knows what its customers need, and you'd better be damn sure that they know what their competition are offering.  While they may be last in the race to deliver a feature, they usually deliver the BEST implementation...often times making the wait well worth it (HDV, for example).

I've said it before and I'll say it again:  PAL 720 implementation is at the TOP of the to-do list.  Avid has pushed other projects to the side to finish 720/25p and 720/50p.  They know you need it.  They do NOT need you rubbing it in their face.  When it's ready, they'll release it.  Better to have to wait 6 months for it and have an excellent, functional product, then have them release it now and it be broken and unuseable.

Patience, dear friend!  It's hard to have when your livelihood depends upon it, but it's a virtue!

No, no, don't say six month. Please don't. I am not a man to cry, but I've been promising this to people for a year now, based on Avid's announcements. It might be on the top of the XPPro team priorities  but if it had been a MC feature, I am sure we were already happily editing our 720p PAL material. Who made the decision not to include PAL? And you wonder why people are mad and continue to post though they probably know about the other posts.

Are we now into Q5 or 6?

"6 months" is a figure of speech, not a timeframe for delivery.

amitzinman:

 Who made the decision not to include PAL?

We have to be hounest to Avid. Then they start their latest "five year plan" (Yes, Avid is a corporation and have long term plans) HD was dead in Europe, and specialy 720p. The only HD equipent which was used was Sony HDCAM with 1080p25 and some 1080i50. Avid ask their users if they need 720p and the answer from that questionary was a compelling no. (We who have done such questionaries would have tell them that they can not rely on customers answer for longer term planning than 6 to 12 mounth. But Tweeksburg is close to Hardvard).

The only manufacture for 720p at the time was Panasonic (I do not think JVC's first batch of HDV-cameras was something that the majority of, or even a small part of it, Avids customers what to use in most projects), but they does not do any hard, or soft, selling of their DVCPRO-HD equipment, so we customers do not think there would be any 720p for us. So we answer, no we does not need 720p. On the other hand, EBU pushes 720p and observers inside the inner circels of the industry in Europe understand that 720p would be hot.

The major misstake Avid does, except for trusting questionaries to much, is that they does not understand the pace of acceptance of HD in Europe the last two years. Even after Panasonic presented the HVX-200E and the new 1/3" JVC HDV-cameras last spring, Avid does not understand the importance of 720p in Europe, Asia and Africa. I think Avid lost 6-9 mounth because of that missunderstanding, and now we can see that Adobe, Canopus/Grass Valley and even Apple can support 720p Europe.

In my view, because of the situation of HD in Europe three years ago, it was a rational decission by Avid to not prioritice 720P Europe, even if industry insiders in Europe would tell them the decission was wrong. The major misstake they made was then they could not change their long term plans fast enought then the market in Europe start a fast race towards HD.

Berga-

Thanks for the insight.  I also applaud you for your patience and understanding.  I'm NOT letting Avid off the hook, so to speak, however, it's refreshing to see someone on here admit that Avid's not quite the jerk many of us make them out to be.  Not to say they're not without mistakes, nor that I don't offer my fair share of gripes/complaints, but it's nice to see a objective opinion here.

Again, Avid knows what its PAL HD users need, and they will fill the needs as soon as possible.  Who knows:  maybe this has taught them a lesson in foresight? 

Thanks Jake!
I try to use my words carefully, but I am not understanding and the patience is only due to the fact I am not producing 720p just now.

I still think, listen to a market poll instead of analyses from inteligent people inside the industry, especialy about a market over seas, there You have no first hand experience, is bad praxis.

And of ourse, they of use who said no, we do not need 720P Europe in the poll have some guilt for the problem. The lession is, never say no to a feature in a questinary, you may not get it.

Well there's a lot of anger and speculation on here as always when this topic crops up. I completely understand that we can't all get what we want when we want it from suppliers and I also understand the reasons why 720/60p had a distinct advantage. However, I was at IBC 2005 and I saw and heard Avid reps on the JVC stand (while I was checking out the HD100 camera) who were promising full HDV1 support 'soon'. One guy told me 'a couple of weeks' and 'next update'. That was in September 2005 - over a YEAR AGO!!! All the 'wait for NAB' talk was just community rumour, as far as I know but I am 100% sure about what I heard at IBC. Given this, I'd say those of us who keep bringing it up and complaining have every right to do so. Something has caused major delays in implementation and it seems rather likely that it has not been 'top priority' for very long. At this late stage talk of waiting so that implementation can be perfect is just rubbing salt into the wound particularly as Avid's existing native HDV implementation seems to me to be inferior to that of Liquid and Edius - both of which are generally considerably down-market even from AXPro.

Furthermore, given that Avid is the weapon of choice for many professionals at various levels who have invested heavily it is not unreasonable to expect a little communication from Avid beyond the 'it's coming' line when nearly every viable alternative product has implemented HDV1 fully.

On the subject of the JVC camera, I would also like to point out that the Avid logo is clearly printed on the HD100 box as it is sold in Europe. Avid and JVC must have discussed this. JVC can't have randomly decided to put it there without Avid's knowledge.

I'm sure that none of us means to criticise Avid unfairly or to subvert the purposes of this board but I think we should keep bringing it up and complaining.

Post,
Your writing about Editus make me think about the difference between Avids open timeline and Canopus. Canopus can, according to their website, mix not only different resolutions, but also different frame rates and export with different frame rates. That is down-market for Media Composer?

Precisely!

Edius and Liquid (software only) are at a price point that is substantially lower than AXPro - and especially MC Soft. As software only, they are quite clearly aiming more at the pro-sumer level than AXPro and MC (look at the packaging and marketing images for Liquid, for example). However, just because they are pitched down-market does not necessarily make them inferior. I have used all these NLEs and - while Edius in particular lacks features many of us take for granted - both have key features you simply don't find in AXPro or MC. Proper HDV1 support is one of them.

The features you mention highlight my point - Avid is charging a massive premium (MC Soft costs TEN TIMES more than Edius and its Liquid stable-mate) and is positioning products above applications that put it to shame, particularly with regard to format flexibility and codec/compression and I/O options.

The Avid interface may well be far superior to Edius in many respects but that's not a great deal of use if you can't actually get the footage in to edit it in the first place!!!!!

'No sorry, we can't work with your footage on our systems but look how well-developed the cutting interface is. Please come back to us when our edit suites support this type of footage. When will that be? Possibly some time this quarter but we can't be sure'

'Secondary colour correction? Uncompressed HD? That'll be an extra £50k - or you could just bring in that £300 software you use for your home movies.'